Listening to dreams.

some thoughts following on from reading this link on exploring dreaming by paul wood.

i think ignoring dreaming would be as silly as ignoring any other part of our lives. it's just a question of knowing ourselves so we can know when a dream is saying something helpful.

brains seem to do lots of tidying up in the night, and can be completely random too. i've found that on the whole if it feels like normal dreaming (normal for me) not to worry about any of it, nor take any of it too seriously. just enjoy - or not, as the case may be. 

like with learning about hearing God's voice in other areas i've found that it's important to learn to recognise other voices so i can filter them out, or in, if that's what's needed. and learning the reflex to ask God about it rather than just puzzling over it myself.
 
so like learning to listen to my emotions. that's me, saying something to me, from me. if i have a knee jerk reaction to something said by an absolute stranger it's odds on it's not the stranger's fault, i need to listen to where i'm coming from. not to obey any old emotion that comes in my head or even analyse it every time, just to recognise that it's me.i'm very bad at listening to my own emotions. my instinct is to cope, put on a brave face, just not even let them near enough the surface to find out what they should be sometimes. God has released me to dream and this has been a vital way for me to find out about myself and my reactions. if it recurs or is distressing i've made a little book to write it down as fast as poss before it's gone, who was involved and how i was feeling, then i invite God in to speak to me, heal me, help me forgive, etc dreaming was a really important way of me coming to terms with a very difficult relationship where i was being emotionally abused but was trying so hard to be nice and care for the person i was just feeding the unhealthy side of the relationship. i had a repeated dream about planning that person's funeral which frightened me that i was committing murder in my heart. i did lots of repenting (which is never wasted) and God broke through to help me understand that my mind and heart had come to the limits of what i could cope with and that it was now right to rupture the relationship.

ditto with my imagination. if i get to recognise my own imagination's voice i can filter it out when i'm trying to work out if something is from God. it's good to imagining. lots of it. like brain storming, problem solving, day dreaming, story telling, hoping, searching, solution finding, enjoying, fantasising. i need to recognise when i'm doing it and to identify that that's what i'm doing.  for my personal integrity i need to be honest that that's what's going on. God may well use it of course but i mustn't confuse my dreams about skating, walking or leading worship as prophetic unless there's a clear other guidance that it's significant.

and my memory. i've occasionally thought something was a word of knowledge when in fact a while later i realised i'd picked up a detail in how someone looked or something they'd half said. it doesn't make what i said less valid but i need to be careful how i word it in order to have proper personal integrity. so the same in interpreting something i dreamed that includes someone. also a person coming to mind either in a dream or in the day i decided following hearing suzette hatting to not read too much into anything at first, just pray for them, which is never wasted and ask God if he wants us to do anything else after.  i remember a very vivid dream where a certain person came into it and somehow i ended up laying hands on her to pray at which point i woke up and was starting to think i wonder why, but stopped myself and carried on praying. yes i did later find out from another source that that had been a bad patch for her and she'd come through it.  i realised after too that it was really probably best i didn't phone her that time she probably didn't feel free to confide in anyone yet.

and my health. of course there's the ever ready too much spicy or rich food just before bed. all dreams following that are to be ignored ! also when we're over tired everything can take on a slightly more dramatic feel, even in dreams. pain comes through too. my daughter had a series of dreams about being the victim of a land mine. i was worried she had a victim mentality till we worked out that her leg was "going to sleep" getting numb and paralysed ( we now know it's a common symptom in our illness)and her brain was trying to make sense of what was going on. same with some extraordinary dreams someone i knew was having - really psychedelic and very vivid and he wondered if God was speaking to him. we prayed and then realised that all of them included the sensation of vertigo - including climbing a rubber lamp post and riding a bike with peculiar  wheels, and in fact it was part of a growing problem of vertigo which incidentally he was over riding during the day using his eyes to balance him up and getting head aches and exhaustion from that. God's advice following having asked him about it was to go to the dr and have time off work !

my social networks and outer social pressures - good and bad.  i'm from a particular family in a particular neighbourhood in a particular country, have had particular friends and other influences. I may want to please them or to battle against them, but i need to recognise they're there and are a very important part of how i interpret what goes on inside me. especially important are reactions against things and people that we pick up from others esp racism, classism etc and the pressure to conform. i think social interaction is a vital part of how we function and just the simple fact of having some social pressures inhibits the anarchy where sin and selfishness and bullying can grow freely. social contacts feed me and i feed others. encouragement, mirroring, all the rest so it's vital it comes out in dreams too. God can use those dreams but i need to identify whose voice is speaking that's all.

my desires. not what i'm against now, but what do i actively want. this can come up a lot in dreams where we want to comfort ourselves, give ourselves pleasure and so on. dreaming about a particular bloke is not a sign i should marry him :-) dreaming about blokes often could be linked to being lonely or feeling lack of appreciation. none of it wrong, just mustn't interpret it as God's guiding just cos it was nice !

then there's the wonderful way we're designed by God to have healing dreams. it seems i'm not the first person to have had a dream where my teeth become pearls and i woke up with a big part of my fear of dentists being healed. (the other part was when i had a tooth abscess starting but went ahead with leading worship at a ladies day as i was the only musician available. they prayed for healing. i was certain, just certain God had done something but i still ended up having to go to an emergency out of hours visit to the dentist to get it lanced. it was only a few days later i realised that the healing God had done was to actually look forward to getting to the dentists and being grateful for his fingers in my mouth - taking away the fear was a much bigger healing and the abscess was dealt with anyway PTL. just for the story young woman was very distressed at seeing my face swell up as the day went on and become deformed - she was prayed for, her fear of disability went and she ended up working with the handicapped !)

this voice should have been first but i'm putting last cos it's what makes it worth while making all the other voices shut up, or at least keep in their place,  cos it's so precious.  recognising Jesus' voice. my sheep know my voice and they follow me. the more i'm familiar with listening to his voice in my waking life, the better i'll recognise it in my dream life. as usual there's the three way spirit level, word, word and word. is it consistent with what God says and has been written down, the scriptures, graphos ? Is it is consistent with the life of Jesus, the logos, the spoken out loud verb of God ? Is it consistent with what the Spirit of God is saying at the moment to me, prophetically or in other ways - rhema ? am i familiar with listening to God in those ways so i recognise when it's him speaking through what ever source, including my dreams ?

a collection of some thoughts about the bible

some thoughts about the bible


my own personal view point
 

i'm coming at "the bible" from a new point of view for me. i've read it believed it and acted on it for years. but it's been turned upside down, put back to front. this period of my life if feel i've been experiencing things and am now finding them in "the bible".
i'm coming at "the bible" from the perspective of having spent nearly a decade 1996 to 2006, not being able to read it much. i was too poorly. but during those years someone walked very close with me and gave me an utter conviction of his presence with me. despite old fashioned loneliness amongst other things he was always there and while everything i have done and am has been called into question in one way or another he was a simple accepting reassuring strengthening presence. i was very socially isolated in practice nursing my sick kids and bipolar husband, trying to keep up work and church membership. and a lot of misunderstandings made me even more lonely. but i remember him feeling so close that i could almost touch him. i could barely formulate "prayers". in fact i felt God told me to stop trying to.
i've only been to church a few times since 2003 cos i cant get our much and i did manage to get thrown out of 2 churches and a mission agency cos of the misunderstandings. but tho i am grateful for all the years i had of fellowship and teaching i'm also enjoying the opportunity to come at things afresh. my view of God has got bigger not smaller. i'm enjoying asking questions and exploring ideas. in this context looking at the bible from new is proving a fascinating experience. i cant see it as chapter and verses any more either. for the moment i cant handle words that have had religious ideas strapped on to them either.
i've been gripped by the people in it. i've been moved by the vivid accounts of clinical depression of naomi, chronic illness of job. i've been touched by a law system that repeats so often that it is available for the foreigner, the weak, the poor, the fatherless, and woe betide those who oppress them. letter after letter that emphasise, even more than theology, the practical outworking of loving God and loving loving others. generosity. and honesty. my giddy aunt we dont know the half of it. i've been moved by my own understanding of myself as a sinner based not on doing bad things but my concept of God's holiness being ever less like a sterilised hospital and more like freshly driven snow. sparkling, light, luminous, exciting, inviting, with a hint of danger. despite me basically being a "nice" person, and liking "niceness" it seems empty compared with that dazzling life giving power. the dynamic of the holy spirit. the God who "talks". who" talks" through his writings too, and "talks" in person. it comes to me over and over as i'm reading it in hungry gulps - if ever anyone was so in earnest to try to communicate, if ever his hearers so thick ....
and through it all the person of Jesus walks through the page and i recognise that presence with me. the one who touched people and noticed them and accepted meal invitations where no "decent christian" would be at ease is the one who i have had walk by my side, whispering in my weary heart and clumsy mind - "do not fear for i am with you". that same word over and again, along with a conviction of being held like a baby bird in the palm of a large workman's hand. i've been moved by the utter dedication of Jesus to people, not in a dry "ought to" sort of way but in the way of someone who has genuine care and genuine authority. i'm not discouraged by my pathetic little efforts, everyone has to start somewhere, but inspired by the profoundness of his understanding of how we tick and what we are really.
i'm such a beginnner. i feel i've got everything to learn.
i feel i've been pretty ham fisted in learning to express myself but i hope i'm learning. i hope my clumsiness hasn't put you off. it's mainly over excitedness. i'll calm down eventually. or maybe i wont. i'm an enthusiast.

i find it very hard to think about "the bible" as just one concept these days. it isn't a book, its such a hodge podge of a collection of documents that i think each needs looking at in it's own right, or at least within it's grouping. i don't know why the letter of james wasn't included. i don't have a problem when people see Jesus from a variety of perspectives.
i think some of the critics of "the bible" have a point because we've made claims that "the bible" cant realistically live up to. i think some find that christians stick in their craw for other reasons, and knocking the bible is a good way to upset them and put them on the defensive.
i do have a big problem with the more dogmatic churches that say you have to interpret this, this way, especially those with fundamentalist tendancies. i have problems with how they speak to those who dont agree with them too. thats why the creation evolution debate sends me batty. i think the science fundamentalists are just as rude and patronising as the so called creationists. i freely admit i have personal issues with fundamentalists whose negativity and rigidity and emphasis on the trivial while missing out on the the essentials did a lot of damage in my family (tho wonderfully there is a thread of faith that continues like a river that's gone underground). i have issues with people having to be proved right and having to put others down in order to do so. i've had to back off some words that are trigger words - like "evangelical" "bible" "gospel" - not that i don't believe them but they have come to have such negative connotations.
here in france the way many people talk on the radio they really believe that if you believe any of the bible you have to be a cretin. they get really angry about creation of any sort being taught in schools in the us. the concepts of bible have got caught up with images of george w bush and his gung-ho attitude to war and god, and his resemblance to a monkey when he smiles. and with black gospel music. many catholics, even nominal ones still wouldn't touch the bible with a barge pole - they've been taught it's too dangerous and only a priest should look at it. they really believe it. people in the 21st century still believe that.
as usual i want the best of both worlds. i think the polarisation of these debates make for stupidity. i think the documents of the bible, as originally written, are probably a pretty accurate account of what they are an account of but they don't claim to be a world history and i don't think they are.

i read the daily bible notes by jeff lucas, lucas on life every day and he's said more than once that there are bits of the bible he has problems with, not cos he doesnt believe that they're true, more cos he's worried they might be. and he freely admits that there are also large bits he doesnt begin to understand. his main point is to apply what we can believe and trust which comes back to other issues like how you see God etc i think that's the nearest i can get to where i'm at. pressure to believe and act on things you're not sure about can be very damaging long term even if it ensures a bit of short term orthodoxy. believing things that are wrong can also be very damaging.

we need to be consistent and scientific about these things - what sort of source documents etc are we willing to accept to make them "authentic" history ? which news paper account would we accept as valid of current news ? if we're going to accept for example that homer's accounts of the trojan wars are accurate with no other corroboration, or the earliest reports on the sayings of confuscious which date a good 500 years after he died, or the accounts of the life and battles of julius ceasar written by julius ceasar starring julius ceasar ... ? in comparison the sayings of socrates written down by plato who modified them to fit with his own teachings is pretty good evidence cos at least we know the author's motives and we know there was a direct link with the original person.

 

 why i accept the bible as evidence about itself.

 

* as far as i can tell even opponents will now admit that they are def the best historical records around as historical records go, by historians standards, according to my sister who worked in an archeology  lab for a while. even if you don't want to live your life by what's in them it seems likely that they do say what they say and a lot of what they say may well have happened, or the way the story is told is an accurate representation of the point of view of the particular people group who is telling the story.

* 4 accounts, written within the life time of many of the first hand witnesses is a pretty strong hand. one of those accounts seems to be written by an independent researcher, sponsored by a non-jew, who interviewed eyewitnesses himself, even the socially outcast, even women, beggars, prostitutes, collaborators with enemy powers, is really quite a coup. the descriptions of the romans for example are consistent with all the other things we know about the romans. all the other writers knew each other. they were related or had been disciples together. as far as i know only luke set out to write the complete biography or Jesus and the early "church". all the other documents and letters fill in each other, fill in for where there are gaps in teaching. james is not going to double up the teachings of paul or peter. they worked together, stayed accountable to each other.

 
* the alternative is believing popes ect i'm sorry i don't trust a pope as far as i could throw one, however much i might admire individual ones.
* i think the archeology backs up a lot of the bible not the popes. where there is no archelology - (and that is a good bit of the early part of the bible), this is typical of many nomadic, low ecological foot print people groups. much of what we know about groups like tuaregs and bushmen etc is based on their own memories and that is not called into question. in order to make a lasting impact on the land scape you either have to do the same thing in the same place for a very long time leaving field, road, dwelling, cultural patterns etc that we can guess from OR you have to have a lot of power and money to be able to build a monument. stonehenge couldn't have been built by a nice little village community sharing and being kind to each other any more than the pyramids were.
* i think if a theology still has to be expressed in latin it's probably dodgy.
* i think some "fundamentalist" teachings are as arrogant and pompous and erroneous as the popes. based on out of date translations of the bible and applied with ignorant and bigoted blinkered rigidity. so called "literal" application appalls me cos it's not what it claims to be. they apply one interpretation of one "verse" as it suits them without even looking at it's own context let alone its historical context. how could the teachings about race have become so prevalent amongst those groups based on a very vague misinterpretation of one verse in genesis when the whole law reiterates over and again that foreigners are to have more or less the same legal rights and obligations as natives, let alone all the teaching about equality in the NT.
* the evangelicals didn't actually break away from this rot till in the 40s and it took much longer to root it out of groups that call themselves evangelical or pentecostal. i'm an evangelical in the sense that luther invented the word - someone who has responded to the good news off my own bat not cos a church has told me i've got to go via it as an intermediary.
* what does the bible actually claim about itself ? - nothing like what the people who try to use it as incantations and spells claim. nor what some groups who use bits of it to justify their own politics. as far as i can see "word of God" is an expression that means several things not just the written collection of documents. for goodness sake why do have to use the words in latin. scripture just means written down. ok, lets say writings so it doesn't have religious overtones. bible - greek for collection or library. why are we so superstitious about it ?
* it claims to be a true account of what happened. as it was originally written that seems quite likely. where there's a difference there's often the alternative present too - eg the "chronicles" are the account of national events kept by the priests, an expurgated version of history. but the two volumes referred to as "kings" are a much fuller version, no holds barred, no taboos account of all the kings' faults as well as their strengths. as it is, it's all a much more coherent account of a nation's history than anything we have in britain so far back, so who do we think we are to pull it to pieces ? some of it is written down from an older oral record , that's no guess work, it actually says when things start to be from a written record in genesis . (it also mentions when the bronze age arrived to their peoples.)
words used in the bible to describe itself : 



1)  "the scriptures" - always referring to the old testament. they didn't even necessarily see the OT as a whole - sometimes the prophetic books are referred to separately from the historical and devotional documents : the law, and the prophets.
2) "the good news of Jesus" . gospel, ev-angel - latin and greek for good news - a common expression at the time - lots of wars - people would wait for an angel - messenger , to announce the progress in the latest international conflict. if the news was good he was called a herald of good news : angel + ev . which would be announced or proclaimed - the word we translate by preach, in a public place. this tradition was carried on in britain with the town cryer and we now call it a news bulletin, still communicated by an announcer (who wasn't present) or a reporter (who was).
3) "the teaching of the apostles". which is what it says.

how we use the bible, and what it is not.

* it's not a book of sayings. There's only 2 documents in the whole  bible collection that are - proverbs and ecclesiastes. anywhere else we can't expect to just dip in and make full sense of any extract without bothering to read the rest. things are written in the context of a family saga, or a biography, a royal dynasty, a national crisis, a personal letter, a systematic explanation, a letter resolving a dispute or correcting error. so we can't use quoting a bible verse like a magic spell in a situation. we have to quote it intelligently

* not expecting everything in our current translation to make complete sense. The bible should, in my opinion be treated with the same circumspect respect as any historical documents.  I would not like to lay odds as to whether the word translated "day" in my Bible means 24 hours, or general time period in the original ? it changes nothing about the fact that comes up all through the Bible - that God created the heavens and the earth, so why get our knickers in a twist about it ? did they thread camel thread (like threading the silk, or cotton into your needle) with difficulty or was it an actual camel through a small gate ?. these are things that are not central to salvation and i can hold on an open hand.

* People talk about details in the bible being inconsistent, but they're not being consistent themselves. the same ppl might accept hieroglyphics, or julius ceasar's writings to be a reliable account even though they're open to a huge amount of interpretation, and may have had elements of political propaganda too in their own day.

Is God Speaking ?

Question :

Hi liz How do you know the voice if god when he speaks to u and differentiate it from your own thoughts ive started journaling and find i can get into a flow but then doubts creep in as to weather ive been hearing gods voice or my own thoughts x

part 1

this is a really good question that has caused much debate for centuries :-)

i did a little study once on "the word of God"

so how does God speak to us ?

well first of all he speaks, he doesn't hint. there's no point going reading things into circumstances the majority of the time. same with finding obscure verses and reading something into them that they're not really saying. we still have superstitious practices that hang around even in christian circles that we don't notice cos that's how our society sees things.

things that are referred to as the word of God in the bible -

first and foremost is the person of Jesus. Jesus is God talking to us - john ch1 - and the word was make flesh and dwelt among us. hebrews 1 "in the past God spoke through the prophets, now he has spoken to us through his son." .therefore we need to copy how he behaved and obeying things he said is the one way to be dead certain you're in God's will. 

* read the eye witness accounts about him - the gospels (literally -good news, greek evangel) 

* mull over his advice and his example. beware over spiritualised interpretations that take things to mean something they don't mean in context. 

* DO IT ! jesus told a story about two building constructors - one set his house in a difficult place to build cos it was on rock, another chose a nice flat area that had a sand base but was probably the flood plain of the river. the storms came, as they do sometimes even if it's only once in every 100 years, and the house built on the sand was washed away. jesus interpreted this story saying that the one who builds on rock is someone who hears jeus's words AND DOES THEM. the other guy heared too but didn't put into practice what he heard. his life was saved but all his life achievements were wasted.

'the bible' is referred to as God speaking. well, lets qualify that statement. the word the bible does not exist in the bible. it means library or a collection of documents in latin and talks about the full collection - old and new. it wasn't used till years after the final documents were written, when people were trying to gather together all the letters and biographies that had been written for the early church. what it is refered to is as the scriptures (latin for writings) is also called the law and the prophets. in hebrews ch 1 it says "in the past God spoke through the prophets, now he has spoken to us through his son." Jesus speaks about everything written in the law and the prophets being fulfilled in him. Jesus treats the ot writings as God talking. in the nt they refer to the teaching of the apostles. at the time it was probably in person at first and passed on as an oral record, but very quickly things were written down and letters would be copied out and passed on from church to church, though they would be too expensive for individuals to own mostly - it was going to be well over a thousand years before the arrival of paper and the printing press.

* we're told to be like a reliable workman in studying and applying it.
* jesus only had the Old Testament, but he learned that very carefully. The quotes he uses when he was tempted by Satan in the desert was probably a "Sunday School" lesson he memorised.

you have to get the bible teachings in place to be able to really work out what is God's general guidelines - no point praying about something and expecting an individual word when in fact it's already more than clear in the bible ( tho read it for yourself - don't just base it on one teaching on one verse) if in the slightest doubt about what the bible is saying about something go and ask Don Fortune. he's read the bible all through each year since he became a christian and he has a careful and balanced approach to things.

if you are feeding yourself with bible and having an attitude of worship and respect to God some of your thoughts will come in line with God's way of seeing things and be naturally more in line with his.

*however you define the word of God it's described in ephesians as a sharp two edged sword, hebrews adds that it can cut between bone and marrow  - that's a scalpel in my language, so don't treat it as empty words ie you have been warned !!! 

thirdly there is god speaking through the holy spirit usually explaining, encouraging, guiding, leading and so on. this is called prophecy when it's another person speaking on behalf of God, or it may be another prompting like a word of knowledge or of wisdom, the interpretation of a message given in an unknown language, a gift of faith to have a certainty about some thing that God is going to do that we can't really know. we'll go on to hearing god speak for yourself next.



part 2

one factor in learning about god speaking is finding out the difference between hearing God speaking and your own imagination.

first practice using your imagination. God gave it to you. we are told to love the lord your God with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind and all your strength and love your neighbour as you love yourself; there's nothing wrong with thinking through.


try reading a passages in the bible and imagine it with real people. ask what happens if ...

get used to what your imagination sounds like. enjoy using it. then you wont pretend it's God speaking cos you'll recognise it, and you'll recognise that it's a really useful tool that God can use to help you understand things, and to therefore speak to you through it.



part 3
 
recognising God's voice - my sheep recognise my voice and follow me - jesus in the good shepherd passage.

what about noting down all the times you ca think of when you were dead certain it was God who spoke to you and it was proved right. would you recognise that voice again.? it is unlikely it was a voice in your ear, more likely in your spirit. did you act on it ? you get familiar with god's voice - but that doesn't exclude ever getting it wrong. you build in confidence.

what was the fruit of hearing what ever it was ? usually when i hear God i feel relieved, or peaceful. 

here's an example : over and over again he's given me the words "do not fear for i am with you". sometimes i have felt fed up - that's not a very exciting message. i had it for the first time at my baptism and its come through all sorts of people over the years. i thought it was cos i can be a frightened person - little lizzymouse. i never guessed that it would mean i was going to be in all sorts of scary situations. God knew that I would need reassuring that the fact that things were bad wasn't a sign that i'd done something wrong, far from it because he had promised he would be with me. we were skint for years and years and years but God provided everything that we needed (tho not always what we fancied) but he wanted us living amongst others in need and living like them. we even lived a few blocks away from an al quaeda terrorist cell for a while - blokes from the same mosque as them came and threatened our kids and their friends and wrecked our car. having a mysterious illness, well, now diagnosed as ME/fibro (whatever that is), is pretty scary too - but knowing with such certainty He is with me has helped me to cope through any number of crises, and especially the loneliness.

i don't begin to pretend that "God speaks to me" every day. but i can be aware of his presence every day, i can learn every day, i can be open to him every day. i can be wary about not listening to other voices every day.


another example of hearing God speak : i was once at a worship conference in lincoln. i had got to know another woman a bit at table. during the extended worship session i felt i had to stand with her and say that God had said she wasn't to be left on her own. i did. i felt a right nit. she said she was fine; i just stood nearby feeling a bit of a dope. then there was an appeal, i listened vaguely but i didn't particularly feel i should go , it was for people in leadership, leading worship, pastors and pastors wives. i stopped listening cos this woman was sobbing her eyes out. i just put my hand on my shoulder and prayed gently in tongues. i didn't know what to say and she didn't look like chatting. they i gave her a hanky, she dried her eyes and said, i'm fine now. thanks. and i went back to my seat. much later, as i was leaving i met her chatting with someone and she said - do you know anything about me? and i said - no, we only chatted briefly at lunch. it turned out she was recently separated - her husband, the pastor, had gone off with the secretary. she'd had to go to another church - so along with the loss of her husband was a lot of loss of status too. no more leading worship or being a pastor's wife, so she felt very miserable and left out not being able to go to the front for that appeal. she was astonished and thrilled that god had provided for her to not be alone and it confirmed he was looking after her.

it was a familiar prompting that sent me to her, but some times i've have got it wrong too. however i don't think a prompting to do a simple act of kindness is ever wrong - unless it's being nebby and nosey or something, even if it's just you being moved by sympathy - that's the fruit of the spirit at work in you. 
i used to worry about if a name of someone came to mind should i pray for them or not. i now automatically pray for them - sometimes it's God prompting me and other times - well it's just their lucky day isn't it.

i find most times God speaks it's rarely guidance about the future (tho that does happen)- it's usually about dealing with something in the present. and often points to something in his character and something in my character. this builds something long term not just a superficial what shall I do next.

i find there are times when im' hasty and should have listened first - when someone asks for prayer, or in prayer for healing, or a miracle i find it's wisest to listen a bit first rather than just crash in with the usual catch phrases that could actually be unhelpful to the person being prayed for.

be careful not to make the wrong claims about something. for example a lot of times it looks like i had a word of knowledge, but i'm naturally curious and i might have noticed the slightest hint or remembered that that person said something that no one noticed at the time. that doesn't make it less God speaking to that person through me but i must be careful what i call it. i don't always remember what triggered it till after - but that's ok - if God chose to use it.

you're not at this stage but some people become so familiar with a churchy way of thinking and talking that this gets muddled in their head with what is actually God. they will bring out their thoughts but present it as God speaking. they're rarely being deliberately naughty, more often well meaning, but there's a thin line between what is harmless and what can be misleading, thoughtless or downright dangerous. in the ot they were called false prophets. the problem was that people liked them cos they said things they wanted to hear, and they looked to all intents and purposes like they were the real deal on the surface. this is why it's important that those who are familiar with prophesying should weigh up any prophecy that is given to check. hence being a little bit careful about prophecy given with no other witness present. always best to check.


part 4

i have found a useful way of checking back is this God speaking is to use a 3 way spirit level (lizzy joke ha ha).

the story : i was watching this bloke building a wall. he wasn't young. he was building a garden wall, and by the way he used his tools and the fluidity of his movements he'd done this lots of times before. what struck me was that at every stage he kept fiddling with his bit of string with a weight on it - you know a plumb line - to check the wall was straight up, and every new row he fixed a bit of string to check he was making it straight. he worked so easily i'm sure he could have done it by eye, but he knew himself and walls well enough to be wise enough to keep checking.


this got me thinking about - we can get so in the habit of making "christian" decisions or the atmosphere in christian meetings, that we maybe aren't always thorough about checking back that it is God speaking and not just our ambitions or hopes or just how our culture sees things. i thought about some of the ways to check we're on the right lines. like the bloke out the back building his wall we need to keep checking ourselves. a good workman makes it a habit like a nurse thinking to wash her hands.

Word of God - Jesus in person. what would Jesus do? is it the sort of thing he'd say. (greek logos - someone speaking something)

Word of God - the bible/scriptures/the law and the prophets/the apostles' teaching - does it fit with the general teaching on that subject in the bible (not just the interpretation of one verse) (greek graphos - something writen down - latin - scriptus ->scripture)

Word of God - prophecy - it it what God's saying at the moment? prophecy should be confirmed by others known to use prophetic gifts if there is any doubt. never hesitate to go and ask someone wise to check out a private word that's been given to you. (greek rhema - the specific message that someone is giving)
 
* beware, i've heard some superstitious rubbish with a bit of truth in it for good measure spoken on this subject. 

* be wary of anyone who thinks God only speaks through them and who is upset if you want to check it. 

* be wary of anyone wanting you to respond without letting you think about it. be wary of anything that leaves you feeling condemned. if it's the conviction of the holy spirit he always gives you something to do about it. and true repentance always brings release - remorse makes you feel better for a bit, but doesn't solve anything really. 

* beware of anyone making you feel you can't hear God properly cos you're young in the faith. parents talk to kids at any age so your heavenly father is very likely to talk to you.



part 5
knowing the difference between God talking and your feelings.

same as with your imagination, find out about your feelings. face them. they're not wrong, even if your reactions to them can be. get used to your own inner voice so you can recognise when you're talking to yourself; a healthy adult does it a lot of the time. if we always block out our thoughts with tv music etc it's not really helpful, same as the opposite extreme of being preoccupied with your own belly button and only listening to your thoughts :-)

you were talking about a journal. it might be that someone has suggested you write down what God says to you. i think that's a good idea. but i think it's helpful to keep a wider journal than that. write down things you're thinking about, event that have happened. put a ? - i wonder if God is speaking to me. come back to it later and re-read it - things may well have become clearer. don't be frightened to think things through. you may laugh when you come back to it in a couple of years time, or you may think - did i really write that - that's a bit wise :-) why didn't i act on it then ?

you got me started on a huge subject. i hope you find some of this helpful - it's by no means a complete study but some of my thoughts.
xx Liz xx